A Battle for Political Power, or a Spiritual Search for Truth?
“I have the impression that many of the debates within the Church around such issues as the papacy, the ordination of women, the marriage of priests, homosexuality, birth control, abortion and euthanasia take place on a primarily moral level. On that level, different parties battle about right or wrong. But that battle is often removed from the experience of God’s first love which lies at the base of all human relationships. Words like right-wing, reactionary, conservative, liberal, and left-wing are used to describe people’s opinions, and many discussions then seem more like political battles for power than spiritual searches for the truth.” – Henri J.M. Nouwen, In the Name of Jesus
So, what is this election year about for you?
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August 29th, 2008 at 6:16 am
For me, there is only one “non-negotiable” issue on the table, and that is what I consider to be nothing less than the slaughter of innocent life. I cannot, in good conscience, rationalize that away.
Anthing else on the table is simply policy. Social spending, taxes, immigration, foreign policy. All of these things can be debated and I can understand both sides of the issue. Abortion just baffles me that it is even a debate.
If that issue were not in either party platform, I suspect my voting record would be much more eclectic than it has been these past 22 years.
You asked.
August 29th, 2008 at 7:02 am
Okay Dan, let’s drill into that if you don’t mind.
For starters, I’ll assume for a moment that you voted for Bush in both 2000 and 2004 in part because of that “non-negotiable” issue (I am pro-life, by the way. ALL life, but that’s for another day). If that’s true, what has your vote bought you in the last 8 years? Is abortion less legal today than it was in 2000? What has happened to the number of abortions in America over the course of the Bush presidency? Has the number risen or declined?
Assuming it has declined, what role has Bush president played in that? Consider this: The abortion rate was it’s highest ever in 1990, when George HW Bush was President. From 1996-2000, the rate declined by 5%. The president during that time? Democrat Bill Clinton.
If this is really a non-negotiable issue that should decide our vote before all else, a some want us to believe it is, why doesn’t abortion data correspond to who holds the White House?
I’d also like to talk more about those mere policy issues, and their role in creating the “non-negotiable” issues we tend to debate as Christians. Given the fact that around 70% of women seek abortions due to economic difficulties, wouldn’t social spending and a focus on poverty represent a more sustainable answer to reducing the number of abortions than a mere criminalization of them? The thing that concerns me most about the “conservative” argument is that the end goal is to make abortion illegal. But shouldn’t the end goal be that children born into this world have an opportunity at life? Focusing only on abortion itself has created, in my opinion, a political platform for the right where no thought is given to creating an environment for children born in poverty to live healthy lives filled with opportunity.
This is great stuff, Dan. And I value your input. Let’s keep it going!
August 29th, 2008 at 7:20 am
I agree with Dan. Being cast as a staunch Catholic, does Biden support Roe v Wade as well? That being said, I wholeheartedly believe Obama will be the next President, because he has garnered the votes of the nation’s young who look at him like a rock star but know nothing about his policies. I challenge anyone to ask the first high school or college kid they know about why they support Obama and listen to their answer…I have.
That and the fact that the economic cycle being down makes an administration change almost a certainty. I will also say that it is good that more and more people are talking about the election and what they believe, which is a GREAT thing. I also appreciate living in a country where we can exchange these ideas freely!
August 29th, 2008 at 7:28 am
I posted before you commented Brandon. And I definitely agree that making it the sole issue by which any of us vote is short sighted. In the end, what I see as the overarching problem is the breakdown in family and the leadership of a God fearing father. Not that great kids can’t come out of a single mother’s home, but it extremely difficult and statistics show that the presence of the male at home is one of the most important factors in a well adjusted kid. Keep it up too! I value your opinion because I value you as a person, not whether or not I agree with you…
August 29th, 2008 at 7:38 am
a thoughtful debate….what a concept.
Ultimately, the power to overturn what I believe to be a flawed decision lies in the supreme court. a 4 year presidency will likely get at least 1 nomination. a two term president could get 2 or 3. Ultimately, the Bush appointments were important in that long term goal.
That being said, your comments are really food for thought in terms of the interrelated issues. Good brain food for a long weekend.
Dan
August 30th, 2008 at 6:09 am
Jim, I couldn’t agree more. I firmly support the view that a father has an obligation to be present, engaged and connected to his family. I also think that, as a soon-to-be-father, my faith should be a pillar in my family. So you and I agree that strengthening the family cannot help but deal with the root cause of many of our current moral, social and economic issues.
No kidding, Dan.
I like it when these debates are about the issues and not about personal attacks on the people making them. I’ve been trolling around various political sites lately and it breaks by heart to see that the debate in America has been reduced to name-calling and hyperbole. People don’t even discuss issues any more, when the issues are what divide us AND bring us together. You’re a conservative and I’m an independent. And yet, I consider you to be a close friend and someone whose company I enjoy. What I want is discourse about issues, because we all need help in working these things out.
As for the Supreme Court issue, I can understand that argument. It’s a view I used to share with you. Perhaps I will again one day. For now, I am starting to feel that the importance of the court is being overstated. As far as I can tell, that court is gridlocked, and will remain that way unless someone dies unexpectedly. Any conservative judge on the court will hang on for a Republican President (as was the case with Roberts and Alito), while any liberal judge will hang on for a Democrat. Bush’s appointments only kept the same split we’ve had for a decade or more. That said, if we continue to elect conservative Presidents, eventually those numbers will shift. Folks can’t hold on forever, so I see the validity of that argument.
But consider these words from Tony Campolo:
“It is not enough to advocate the overturning of Roe vs. Wade. Pro-life Republicans must join pro-life Democrats and address the economic problems that are driving hundreds of thousands of young women to think that abortion is their only option. Such Republicans should also remember that for two years their party controlled the White House, the Congress and had a conservative Supreme Court, and yet made no concerted effort during that time to address the abortion issue. That might be why many Evangelicals who had given the Republicans their votes four years ago are having second thoughts about voting Republican this time around.”
http://blog.beliefnet.com/godspolitics/2008/07/prolife-democrats-call-for-an.html
I guess when it comes down to it, Dan, I feel that the Republican party manipulated me for my vote in 2000 and 2004, and then did nothing to keep its promises. I allowed my vote to be cast for me, and that’s not going to happen again.
What do you guys think? Am I being too extreme here? Again, I really appreciate the discourse because I know that working out our vote is a somber process.
August 30th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
What’s this election year about for me? Answer: presidential leadership that can inspire, organize and mobilize the resources of this nation again for good and the good of our neighbors.
As for the discussion thread of abortion, let me add a thought that struck me this morning. What I’m struggling with is that if we follow our popular American “christian” logic on the value of life and justice we come to this conclusion: a woman who has an abortion has committed murder and is worthy of the death penalty (not my view but follow me). This outcome sounds absurd; however this is where our myopic American “christian” logic has led us. So instead of just 45 million abortion deaths since 1973… we can add another 45 million on top as punishment for the death of the innocent. The reason I feel we as Christians have been largely ineffective in lowering the death rate of unborn children is because we have an incoherent view of life that betrays our lack of mercy and grace. In other words, we have not earned the right to stand up for the unborn because of how we have treated our enemies. Until we start saying and showing the world that all life is precious and on the brink of redemption (no matter your age or pre-age, nationality, economic status, criminal record, etc…) we will not stand a chance of saving babies.
Idealistic Alert!
Honestly, I see this issue as being so big and impossible (forgiving enemies along with the innocent) that I seriously doubt the Supreme Court can lead us in the charge. This is a Kingdom of God issue that will operate through different methods, quietly, under the surface, grassroots, cross-border until normal people (christian and not) catch the vision of redemption and therefore choose not to harm their unborn child and born enemy. Only the Kingdom of God (reign of God) coming to earth could make this sort of thing possible. I believe it’s possible (usually) but it’s way bigger than getting a supreme court justice appointed. If I read scripture correctly, we have been appointed for this task.
September 1st, 2008 at 6:42 am
What a wise quote. But then Nouwen was a wise man.
(Aside: I tagged you, for better or worse. : )
September 2nd, 2008 at 5:25 am
“choose not to harm their unborn child and born enemy”
You had to bring it down to Kingdom Values didn’t you
. Great statement! Hit me right in my gut…
Brandon, excellent point about the manipulation of your vote in 2000 and 2004. While I don’t feel quite that wrongly, I can understand why many conservatives could feel exactly as you describe. I am definitely making the effort to examine my choices this time around wihout my standard party bias getting in the way.
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:13 am
Russ, thanks for sharing your own thoughts and process for working all this out. I think you’ve shared some good thoughts to chew on.
LL, thanks for the tag, I needed a post idea for this week.
Jim, just for my information, what does that examination process look like for you? I know it’s hard to separate the substance from hype in an election year, so I’m always interested to see the tools that others bring to tease out real truth.
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:19 am
Brandon, I try to stay out of the media altogether. I do not watch CNN or Fox at all so that their respective spins have no affect. However, I do get the liberal media spin from my mother-in-law who parrots the Democratic message of the day.
This example of criticism for Palin’s support for abstinance education while her daughter is pregnant is ridiculous. That is akin to criticizing Christians for being sinners…wait, that is the brush with which we are already being painted.
I have spent a lot of time on barackobama.com and johnmccain.com reading “official” policy stance. I also try to wade through the tripe on the Democrat and Republican National Committee sites for similar information. I also take most of the survey’s I can find that will match your answers with the candidates and let you know how closely you agree.
September 4th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Jim, thanks for sharing, I think those are good methods of discovery.
Now, a question for everyone (if you’re even still in this discussion): As a Christian, what part does prayer play in how you decide to cast your vote?
Let’s be specific…